Al Franken: Why I Voted Against the National Defense Authorization Act

Al Franken: The only Constitutional Conservative left in Congress.

If President Obama caves in and does not veto this as Representative Al Franken, then he should not be reelected as President. This bill should be consider treason. Previously, I wrote when they made General Petraus head of the CIA, we had become a military state. They had to end the wars we could not pay for and what to do with the killers they have trained to kill Iraqis? Let them come home and kill Americans in Abu Grhaib Gitmo type prisons. They are too afraid of what these trained PTSD killers will do to those who sent them on multiple deployments so they are sicking them on the American people. If the terrorists were here, why did we go to Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. We need a President, Congress and Supreme Court that will end what Bush created and give us the America for which our founding fathers and Revolutionary War soldier fought and died.

I am hoping our soldiers do as the soldiers in Egypt.

I am proud of my Senator He is a progressive in which we need more of.

Previously, I wrote when they made General Petraus head of the CIA, we had become a military state

Trivia question: how many directors of central intelligence have been military officers?

Answer: Gen Petraeus is the eigth since the agency's inception to have been on active duty while he was DCI; others (like George H.W. Bush) had been in the miltiary before becoming head of the CIA, but weren't on active duty while they were in that position.

Thank goodness for Franken. Is there no one else thinking? This ability of the government to imprison any American without recourse to due process or the ability to confront their accusers is the end of the Democracy experiment. The facists have stepped up their game -- if we don't stop it now, the end is over. Urge President Obama to veto the bill. He must -- or this may be the last election we ever have.

For a nation literally chock full of self and publicly professed patriots our citizenry and elected officials seem amazingly homogenous in their desire to regularly attack and undermine so many foundational American freedoms and values.

Al Franken; good and solid American citizen. One to ride the river with.. and I had only ever thought of him as a comedian till a few short years ago.

Thank you for your service, Al Franken!

Thank you for just barely oozing by Norm Coleman.

randomreturn,

Interesting factoids you provided, but you do know that David Patraeus retired in August right? Although he was selected and confirmed while on active duty, he wasn't sworn into that position until September.

Feliznavidad, you said it so well,

Thank goodness for Franken. Is there no one else thinking? This ability of the government to imprison any American without recourse to due process or the ability to confront their accusers is the end of the Democracy experiment.

Apparently, "thinking" is not allowed in the senate or house, and if the President does not veto it, then I - who did vote for him - would not consider voting for him in November 2012. Of course, that would mean choosing someone else.

To this date, the Republicans/Tea Party have yet (maybe except for Huntsman) a candidate that is worthy of this position.

These are - in my short 50-years - the darkest days of our entire country's history.

We have learned little, if not anything about the concepts of liberty or why due-process is so important.

While we have detained terrorists who were very much part of the acts against this country, we have also detained those that were not, which is why we, as a country, do not detain people without due-process.

Good comment, Feliznavidad. Apparently, there are those in the vine that do think.

Trivia question: how many directors of central intelligence have been military officers?

How many were relieved from active duty during two wars as the general in charge and made head of the CIA at a time when American citizens were considered terrorist and the military could enter their homes anytime they please without court order?

Yes, I know. But selected based on military service, confirmed irrespective of military status (by which I mean it does not seem it was a quid pro quo to get confirmation). The CIA started as a military organization when it was the OSS and historically even though it's a civilian organization, it's retained significant military presence in its higher ranks. My point is simply that the selection of a military member to be DCI neither makes the US a military state nor is a symptom of it.

Regards,

randomreturn

Sorry, I will have to strongly disagree. Many see the CIA as part of the military state. Many see it as part of the Gestapo. Given the tide towards becoming a police state which began long before General Petraus was appointed head of the CIA, I still see his particular appointment as a part of thecurrent planned police state police state irrelevant of past appointments as they were not appointed prior to granting the military the right to attack American citizens. I do not see his appointment as other appointments of ex-military .

I see his appointment with open eyes of having to wear the Star of David. Killing of the Jews was planned long before they were asked to wear the Star. Wearing the Star was one of the first steps of the plan as a way of identifying them before killing them. Thus I see the appointment of General Petraus one of the steps in the plan to give the military control over the people. And I state again the General's predecessors did not have the right to go after the people. Taking away the rights of those who disagree and policing them is the plan.

I see Adler315 post below is very relevant regarding the appointment of General Petraus.

Okay, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. But I think that our opinions are enough apart that neither of us is likely to be swayed by the other, so I shall bow out of the discussion at this point.

Regards,

What, has as many aspects of the Holocaust, bewildered me is how many did not believed the escapees from the concentration camps.

this is kind of off point, but it is nice to see a politician speak without attacking another political party.

simply said, this man expressed "HIS" stance on why he did what he did. not towing a party line. not necessarily looking at re-election. just has a problem with the constitutionality of it.

YAY USA

Palmquist1

I am proud of my Senator He is a progressive in which we need more of.

...about 60 more of Franken!

There were 13 no votes, almost split equally between the left and right. Of course, none of my Senators voted against it. (Boxer/Feinstein)

F F R:

They'll wake up when their children, grandchildren, or they are arrested. They'll wake up to the nightmare they helped create.

We need to somehow stop the Dumbing Down of the American People.

Illegalizing fox WOULD go a long way towards making at least that war winnable.

Also,some of the 'criteria' for that which was aired last week makes it highly questionable as to who they want to really arrest,and now they can.

1. A person with more than 7 days worth of food stored.-Dare I say what we do when hurricane season starts?

DAMMIT!!! NOW I will be on some watch list,I'm quite sure.

Heil!!! Imagine that,wanting to defect to Cuba in order to regain some freedoms. Sheesh.

Everyone thought that Al would be a joke, BUT as it turns out he has been one of the few that has any shown any common sense at all through all this.

Detaining Americans for an indefinite amount of time is wrong on ssooo many levels!

Many good men have died to protect our rights and our own government comes along and yanks the rug under our feet! I don't @!$%#in think so.

How many times are we going to sit and watch our government take away our rights?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

WE DO NOT FORGIVE

WE DO NOT FORGET

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen —
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen —
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich nicht protestiert —
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die ersten Juden holten, habe ich geschwiegen —
ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
_______________________________________

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent —
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent —
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out —
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the first Jews, I remained silent —
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

— Martin Niemöller (1892-1984), German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor

1. A person with more than 7 days worth of food stored.-Dare I say what we do when hurricane season starts?

Haven't they been telling us for decades that we should always have on hand at least a weeks supply of food and water on hand in the event of an emergency. You know, tornado, flood, earthquake, hurricane, etc. Blankets and other items as well.

WTF? Did I miss something? When did this become a bad thing?

Adler315

I agree with you. Sections 1031 and 1032 of the 2012 NDAA scare the hell out of me. I served with the 3rd Marines in Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces of Vietnam in 68 and 69. One morning I saw some ARVN Soldiers drag two guys that they suspected of being sympathizers or something out into the middle of a road, put a .45 to the back of their heads and put an end the issue once and for all. At the time as an 18 year old Marine private, my thought was "who gives a Crap?" I've had almost 45 years to rethink the happenings of that day and have come to a very different conclusion.

These provisions in the NDAA all but eradicate Posse Comitatus along with the 4th and 6th amendments. We are setting up the possibility for the same type of "justice" I witnessed in outside of Cam Thanh. With this heavily bipartisan passage, we have started down a very slippery slope that can only end in tyranny. I always thought that Al Franken was a bit of a "Saturday Night Live joke" gone wrong who was just elected because of the anti-bush sentiment of the day. I freely admit today that we need another 99 Al Frankens in the senate.

Chris, I appreciate your comments and your service to our country.

We need to stand together against this. This is something that all Americans can join together on.

I always have more than seven days of food around. We shop a lot at Costco. They sell in bulk. It makes sense for us: We have three grand kids and their dad living with us. I think that "crime" is written in the law so they can arrest and imprison anybody at any time for any reason or no reason. They can always say their pantry is too full. There's no other logical reason for it.

Bulk pricing can be such a cost saver if you can afford the up front expense.

I've always tried to keep extra supplies on hand. Food, water, batteries, blankets, well stocked first aid kits and the like. While I've never had the "need" for them myself, they have most certainly come in handy when my parents (along with 10s of thousands of others in their neck of the woods) lost power for over a week due to a hurricane.

Okay.

One more attempt to show the complete ignorance of those who think this bill will do anything but open the door for the Fascism wanted by the powerful and elite.

How many bills have been passed to prevent illegal immigration ?? Did they ever accomplish what they wanted ?? Yes they did, they accomplished putting off dealing with it until it was to late and the damage was done.

Have the laws Bush passed stopped terrorism ?? No they have made our government a terrorist organization against the freedoms of this nation. To continue down this path is to lead to Fascist ville America. Where we salute the government run by business and praise the lies spewed out as religion.

Not for me !!! Live free or die, I won't serve the Fascists.

where I live, if you don't have a friggin month's worth of supplies, you'd better find somewhere easier to live, or you're not gonna survive, (and your neighbors think you are stupid if you don't stock up) I've had to run a generator for power for 2 months straight when we had deep snow and broken off power poles, and believe me, I was glad I had lots of supplies

I love it when the truth comes out!

F.R. sent brightstarone

We need to cut off the corporations at their fat wallets! Get the corporate money OUT of our government! Our elected officials are serving the people that bought them their jobs! It's on both sides, one party is no better than the other!

But, sammy, SCOTUS had declared that these corporations are people and when they open their fat wallets to buy elections and politicians they are merely exercising free speech. But it's fair--if poor people had billions of dollars they would have just as much right to this "free speech."

But it's fair--if poor people had billions of dollars they would have just as much right to this "free speech."

IF, But until they do, it is NOT FAIR! IF poor people had billions of dollars then they would not be poor!

It will also be fair if we tax the corporations so they can't make enough money to contribute to the political campaigns or influence our politicians. That will also help to bring our nation out it's $15 trillion quagmire.

Our government should NEVER be for sale! SCOTUS was wrong in making their decision! Corporations are NOT people! MONEY DOES NOT EQUAL FREE SPEECH!

And, by the same token, once again the law is fair because it is just as illegal for a rich man to sleep under a bridge as it is for a poor man. (Where's that sarcasm button?)

I've never been afraid of terrorists or their attacks. Not before or since 9/11.

As each right was weakened or lost, our government became more and more worrisome. This bill makes that leap from worrisome, to fearsome. This is what the populace should be afraid of. Not some imaginary boogie-men that the Religious Immoral Minority, FOX and the Republican Tea party keep pointing at.

While they have been keeping many of us occupied with shiny sparkly things, squirrels and imaginaries, they have been busily dismantling our constitution and stealing our rights. (actually, they haven't had to do much "stealing" as the frightened bunnies and sheeple have happily given them away)

daMamma,

Its interesting that you have a greater odds of being killed by a drunk driver, a shark or domestic dog in America than you have of being killed by a terrorist act. Yet people are so quick to sign away their rights to protect themselves from the latter?

I had the same reaction as you, exltcusa, and read through the entire bill earlier this month, and like you found nothing regarding US Citizens (in fact as you noted above, 1031 specifically states that the provisions do not apply to US Citizens at all).

Now I have heard from a LOT of intelligent people, including Sen. Franken obviously, that this ACT does indeed seek to indefinitely imprison US Citizens who may only be accused, and I have to say that I must have missed some provision or wording that actually DOES SAY SUCH???

I'm not being facetious or argumentative when I respectively ask - someone, anyone, please show me the language that is causing this concern (because if true it most certainly is of the utmost concern).

Well, after reading about 200 articles, blogs and opinions, I may have answered my own question - here is what I found (from a piece by Kenneth Anderson):

On the day that the Senate passed its version of the NDAA, I wrote a post in the morning addressing whether the bill could be read to affirm that detention authority extends to US citizens. Reading the existing language of section 1031 in conjunction with section 1032, I concluded that the best reading of the bill was: yes, section 1031 encompassed citizens. Later that day, Senator Feinstein offered an amendment to the bill in an effort to preclude that outcome, by explicitly altering section 1031 so as to state clearly that citizens are not included. This amendment failed. Still later, she offered a fall-back amendment, altering section 1031 so as to say that it should not be construed as taking a position on the US citizen question one way or the other. That amendment was adopted, and is now part of the Senate bill as the conference on the NDAA gets underway. I later went back and updated my original post to reflect this.

This compromise amendment passed in the Senate version of the bill. AsChesney notes in this earlier post, there are other considerations of law regarding detention in any case, so that any detention authority has to be qualified at a minimum by habeas rights. (Chesney is responding here to an article by Conor Friedersdorf at the Atlantic; he quotes from Friedersdorf’s claim that the NDAA would allow the President to indefinitely detain even US citizens without judicial review):

......

This is simply not so, however, given the availability of habeas corpus review. Any citizen held in military custody anywhere, regardless of where captured, will have such review. Any non-citizen captured in the United States will have such review.

http://volokh.com/2011/12/07/us-citizen-military-indefinite-detention-in-ndaa/

The issue seems quite complicated, but it appears that habeas corpus will still apply...

Maintaining the status quo? Won't the President veto that then?

thomasG:

Remember that when they arrest you for protesting the higher taxes this will bring. They will tell you, you are a terrorist for not supporting the regime with the money you need to support your family with.

Do you understand Fascism at all ??

our rights and freedoms are under attack by subversive citizens of this country and extraordinary measures are needed.

The "subversive citizens" in this case are those in power. The "extraordinary measures" to be used, will be used against ALL OF US. It will not matter what your political affiliation is, nor your religious doctrine, or your ideology. You will be viewed as just as much a part of the "problem" as everyone else who so much as steps a toe out of line. Those who's religious beliefs are not quite the "correct" ones. Those who's ideology is not a complete replica of those in power have told us it should be, with a touch of added awe and worship tossed in for good measure for our "betters".

All of us are the ultimate target, for all of us not in power, we are all "the other". To be controlled or eliminated.

Time to see the writing on the wall and take our nation back from these people. We have to use our voices and our votes while we still have those to use.

Agreed. One thing I like about him is that he has a spine.

Oh my God what a bunch of crap.

Good morning everyone looks like everyone has been busy/because no one is up having coffee with me. So I will have to say, Thank God for Al Franken/even though his vote didn't make a difference it still got passed. But if he could have convinced enough others to vote against it that sure would have made the difference. So close and, yet so far away are our civil liberties & freedom disappearing.__— All I can do now is believe that me and my fellow Americans are not going to go down without a fight. Because fight we deffinitly will have to do if We Love Each Other enough to remain a free people and a free Country. God Bless All Maria

So maria,

Why didnt Pelosi and Feinstein vote the same?

Are they idiots?